Something’s got you fired up tonight.

Check out the blog I posted earlier today about Rev. Wright and Dr. King and comments taken out of context by the media.

http://dalebest.blogspot.com/2008/04/screw-context-let-me-think-for-you.html

1…I’m not a slave to money, just those who want/take mine
2…TBN, don’t get it on basic cable, thank GOD, or else I would loose the faith
3…Obama/Rev Wright; I vote policy, not preacher–but no, my pastor has never made comments I am ashamed of, but admittedly I don’t make it to church as much as I should. And Luther…yep, anti-Semite, hot head, ego-centrist, not well revered in my hall of heroes.

Great post…got me emotional.

Good stuff, brother.
We just had a similar discussion about the Wright sermon last week on my buddy’s discussion board. My one friend asked us to compare a Jerry Falwell sermon after 9/11 to Rev. Wright’s now infamous one.

If you’re interested, you could read up on it here: http://redstripe.hyperboards.com/index.php?action=view_topic&topic_id=25

Shalom

Libby,
Yes he did!

Dale,
Great post on your blog. I only mention Martin Luther because it was easier to put him among white American protestants. MLK jr and how many other people we look to as heroes? MLK could be seen as a hero now, but he was vilified, and although there weren’t the soundbites, people looked at his speeches as a whole and were outraged for his talk against the US (not just on “black issues”).

Nate,
This is what I don’t understand. Luther was an anti-semite (he wasn’t the only big shot in Christian history), and we compartmentalize and take the good with the bad (as Obama did)…Or we say he was a product of culture/time like Obama did.

Rod,
Obama made statements public last year, and maybe earlier, but that’s earliest I read about. I believe last April he said statements from Wright were clearly wrong. This was how many months before all the soundbites and continuous video plays? Not only that, we also have a conversation from that time where Obama is telling Wright personally that these statements were wrong and he didn’t agree with them, because Wright acknowledged that some of his sermons would be a liability to Obama. All of this last year, but how much of that is reported? Or is it easier to say Obama all of a sudden distanced himself from sermons after the public became aware of it?

This is a public by the way where a year ago as many as 15% of people believed Obama was a secret Muslim who would swear on the Koran.
LOL

Greg,
I agree. Integrity should be the case. It often is not. I would have never went to church Trinity United Church of Christ. I guess the double standard bothers me, when neither is right. And I think the role of pastor, as someone who has integrity, has been lost. Maybe it’s sexual scandals. Not sure why it is?

Cheers.

Nathan,

Unfortunately, I agree with you. The role of integrity in the pastor has been greatly diminished in the last few decades. I’m probably still to young and idealistic to hope that a new generation of church leaders can rise up and actually live by the standards that are established in the word…

TBN can operate in greed.
Paula White can operate in adultry.
Rev wright can be a racist.

God will not be mocked.

…man, I’m really on a rant today…don’t know why??? Sorry.

peace,
glo

Greg,
I guess I shouldn’t need to say this but, obviously I have no problem with people raising money. It’s how you do it. Greed, as you said, and in the name of God. It made me sick, and geesh I got fired up last night.

Becky,
Much of the 90’s (until my undergrad atheism/agnosticism) as a member of a strong faith/prosperity church, there were things said by the pastor I was deeply ashamed of. Speakers were brought in (Purkey, Parsley, Duplantis, etc) that said and acted in ways I was deeply ashamed of.

Actually this brand of Christianity might have played a huge role in my atheism/agnosticism.

In spite of all that I was deeply committed and would do anything for that pastor, as a church member or an atheist.

For several years now the church and pastor have made a remarkable paradigm shift from that 90’s period. It’s cool to see, and certainly this is an exception and not a rule for a church like that. And a pastor of that leaning then, who is now influenced by Wright and Willard is just as remarkable.

My commitment, support, and love for that pastor is just as true today as it was then. And certainly there are issues today that I have disagreements with, which would be expected from a church with any amount of eclectic folk, but nothing preached for some time have I been ashamed of.

Probably the Obama relationship issue is much more complicated than what has been presented by soundbites.

Cheers.

I’m with you on that Nathan. Nothing I’ve been ashamed of for awhile now. Not from the pulpit anyway…..

You sure came back with a vengance after your move into smaller digs… I like it!

Give me some practical examples of things that you and Liz have given up during this consumption fast that you have learned to live without and maybe even enjoy living without. I’m curious….

The teachings of TBN prove that there really is nothing new under the sun. The pharisees of Jesus’s day twisted the word of God to fit their agenda too.

Kacie,
Here’s the link.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8298538909443264683
I watched 10 minutes at lunch, and I’ll watch the rest after work…looks humorous.

Beth,
Lots of stuff. Books on amazon (meaning I have to read the books I’ve got that I haven’t even read), cd’s, going to the movies, restaurants, shopping for any clothes, cigars, Dairy Queen, and comparing the little items that you grab at the store on a whim. If we had 140-150 monthly items on our bank statement, now we have 70-80. I will eventually devote a whole post to it because this is an issue of character, habits, and my discpleship which have been exposed.

Sandy,
I’m not sure how Jesus would handle things like this today. Like then, no doubt it would get some attention, and make some folks upset.

Cheers.

sml,
Give me his number and I’ll call him, or wait, hold on, he is probably waiting for the 30, 60 or 100 fold increase he was promised, so never mind, he must not be a sucker. I’m sure his check is in the mail.

I know every single person that has posted on my blog except you. And with each post you make your identity more clear. Anonymity has never been my thing, but it works for you bro.

Rick,
I 100% agree with you that sin in any context is still sin. And personal preferences do affect which sins become pet ones to be cared for and treated special, while others are beaten and kicked to the curb. It’s all bad.

But here’s what deserves context is a motivation. A background. A history.

If Liz and I are talking to a woman who has trust issues with men and basically doesn’t like them, we would pray she has a healing in her heart. However, if we find out she was molested for five years by an uncle as a child, this will dramatically alter how we interact and pray for her bitterness and hurt. Another person’s sin actually affected her own sin. Agreed?

The interesting thing about greed is that it casts a shadow over an entire ministry. When a preacher is consumed with that topic all the time, and you fully expect a 30 minute sermonette before he takes up the offering, it makes you question what his motivation for ministry is. The multi-million dollar homes, luxury vehicles, and lack of financial accountability, or the person he doesn’t know who sits in the pew and writes the check?
I’m trying to figure out what context and background affects greed…Not having the cool shoes in high school?

Wright is in part a racist, who is bitter, hateful and angry. All of that list is sin, all bad, but all of these are based in some part on what? I’d say the shame and humiliation of anyone in the black community in the 40’s, 50’s, 60’s…With all the anger and hate there is a man who is hurt, like the woman in the above example. I couldn’t imagine what that would have been like. Stories I read from then are terrible.

This is not an excuse for hatemongering, because the way of Jesus is to forgive and have restoration, and others in Wright’s position have made that step. And it’s too bad he is not there yet.

Studies show again and again the sentences for whites and blacks based on similar crimes, and it’s not close. The way someone like Coulter can just gloss over the fact that racism is still deeply entrenched in American society only makes the problem worse, and as Obama pointed out that the hate and racism of Wright without acknowledging the good and the progress of America also makes the problem worse. We have a ways to go, and hopefully healthy dialogue will further that.

(Heck now I think of it, I was in high school in the early nineties and remember guys making racial jokes about my black friends pretty regularly. A couple of them are cops now. But that only happens in Missouri, and with Mark Fuhrman.)

Maybe I’m wrong on this, but I think a particular context is an issue even though it does not lessen the sin.

Cheers.

That Theroux link is funny…but embarrassing.
Angels on your body!

You wouldn’t call him. Anyone who would call a man who has spent his entire life giving and laboring for the Lord and his country a “sucker” and assumes his doing so is for greed or gain is too much of a cowardly projectionist.

My purest apologies for the name shortening. Absent a link to my blog I can understand how doing so provides more anonymity than say “Rick” , “Beth”, or “Greg”. I came across your blog from a comment you made in Pastor Zahnd’s blog. Should you require further inquiries into my identity, you have my email.

Nathan:

On Obama and Wright, I had a few thoughts on the issue myself, kind of in line with what you were saying. Reminds me of Michael Ramsey’s comment, “Wherever St. Paul went, there was a riot… Wherever I go, they serve tea.”

Grace and Peace,
Raffi Shahinian
Parables of a Prodigal World

Looks as if you’ve got some good conversation going on here, Nathan. I think you already suspect where I come in on this conversation. I just keep coming back to this…out of context. Maybe. However because this reported to be the DVD circulated by the church itself to promote the church, then I have to believe this is exactly the context the reverend was aiming for.

I’ll leave it at that, I don’t want to say anything that might anger or offend anyone. Lest I get punished. Like maybe by a….baby?! (had to do it!)

Your name is not Samuel it is Quinten. Your IP address is from Boehringer Ingelheim where you work.

You have been dishonest and you are no longer welcome to post comments on my blog.

So that no one reading and unfamiliar will think I am being arbitrary. I’m trying to figure out why you would even come on my blog.

For over two years now you have privately said, and publicly written, some of the most insulting things about me.
My wife wasn’t happy to read or hear so many things said, and I know I didn’t like it, but we refrained from responding in like manner.
Not only did you insult me, but you regularly insulted a ministry out of our home that supported the poor, welcomed the unchurched, and served Christians from lots of churches.

And then when our pastor met with us to get you to quit insulting me, he told you that if you have anything to say about me, say it to me directly.
Well I guess you have come on here and sarcastically referred to my “most holy and openly transparent” blog.
But you still continue to insult me from your Xanga blog, rejecting the wise counsel of our pastor.

Most importantly, I said I wanted to be your friend and have restoration in that meeting (because you think I did something that I have told you over and over that I never did).
You flatly rejected my offer of reconciliation and peace in front of our pastor, and I fail to see why you would even read my blog.

I love you as a brother in Christ, but please don’t escalate this situation; all I’m nicely asking you to do is not comment on my blog anymore. Simple enough.

Cheers.

Racism (or hatred of any kind) is ugly however it gets dressed up or legitimized or justified. And it always hurts, and it always hurts all involved.

I really hate hatred.

bradley,

speaking for myself, I was more than a little surprised when Obama referred to his grandmother as “a typical white person.”* Is that tossing her under the bus? I don’t know, but it does seem inappropriate from a guy who just attempted to distance himself from his pastor’s racial stereotypes. Would describing “a typical black person” be any less offensive? As I ranted earlier, and attempted to demonstrate with O.J.’s verdict photo, there is no context to racism, only a gulf.

*Source: http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phillygossip/Obama_on_WIP_My_grandmothers_a_typical_white_person.html

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