I am the pastor of Rhythm Church in Mason City, Iowa. I graduated from Talbot Seminary in Los Angeles and the University of Kansas....Read More
I have seen this little 4 minute video out in the blogosphere quite a bit.
My question, as you watch, is how does this apply to the church? Does it have relevance to the way we should do things at all? Now or in the future, how do you transition? If schools teach from a 19th century paradigm in the 21st century, what about the church?
Give it a chance to warm up, and what are your thoughts?
Cheers.
Brought here from that guy Jim who commented but didn’t reply… ;)
I wonder exactly that. Towards that end, I wonder what blogging might offer on the table in that way, but not towards ‘preaching’ but more of bringing a discussion to the table on the message topics. And how we live out our lives as parts of the church body (but not in any ‘official’ church organization sort of way).
I just noticed that your question is more geared towards how the church can teach, so I guess I can point out that there is online audio. I know (since I do that stuff) that it’s not really popular at my church, but I do know others that don’t really have a church family that really dig being able to listen to messages from all kinds of churches anywhere… We’ve occasionally listened in on our Ohio church family’s messages because we still miss ‘em big time…
I sometimes wonder if, instead of colleges utilizing their current format, if they would have students assist in creating the format.
Ever seen the movie ‘Accepted’? Fabulous movie for those interested in thinking more about this. Its a bit campy, but caused me to think a lot.
I have believed for a very long time that our school system is targeted at a small minority.. most of the folks who are successful in school have a style of learning that is very compatible with the manner of teaching in “institutionalized education” … hey, I liked saying that … usually it is someone who is unhappy with church that says “institutionalized church” :)
Seriously, the problems in US education far outshadow that of church in America.. I wonder why we never hear about this? Maybe it is because the “institutionalized church” has bought into “institutionalized education” … hmmm … I wonder how many of us in church like to be “taught” by Doctor Jones or Reverend Smith instead of being ministered to by brother Joe … hmmm … some interesting thoughts.
Thanks for the opportunity to comment. I think that I will link here and follow-up at my place.
Blessings, Bob
I saw this last night and have been listening to Tryad ever since. Nice music.
I think it will likely be a generation before we see real creativity in both the school system and the church. The ones in control are not likely to create new possibilities. And the ones who remember the old ways but were part of the new are going to be hindered in doing so.
But our children will likely have the freedom to explore these new possibilities and create new avenues because we their parents will have created enough dissonance to foster it and enough permission to allow it.
Nathan GannChris,
Good observations. I think the idea behind the video can be applied across the board in the church, and the implications would reach beyond just preaching/teaching. Discipleship, worship, communitiy focused interaction, etc.
Brad,
I knew you would like this video! ha! Good movie reference, and certainly in youth groups the stats from the video are obvious.
Bob,
Our public education is a joke. And sad when compared to other countries. My guy Ron Paul wanted to shut down the dept. of education (like Reagan). Somewhere along the way it got off track.
Jonathan,
I agree with you. There will be patches of change and progress in these areas right now, but I would guess it’ll be a while before there are dramatic shifts in methodology.
Cheers.
I’ve seen this before. I think that entities that stand to profit financially from more technologically advanced forms of communication utilize it best–maybe they’re more driven.
If I’m right, that’s good and bad for the church. Good because maybe the church isn’t consumed with stockpiling cash, but bad because maybe the church’s passion for spreading the hopeful message of Christ is less than the monetary passion of those better utilizing and creating new communication means.
While I think the church and educational organizations need to step it for the sake of their mission, sometimes I wish the world would regress back a little bit to when things were more simple and everyone had a little bit more time.
Nathan GannNate,
Brilliant insight here. I too often wish I could go live with the Amish or something, and get stuck in time.
Setting aside the monetary issues, is this like seeing the Gutenberg revolution, when some still want to communicate things pre-15th century movable type? Or more current, churches that don’t have a website? Etc?
This isn’t just what media we use, but how we use it, right?
McLuhan quote at the beginning of the video, and how profound is his statement about the “medium is the message?”
For example, teaching used to be static. Univocal. Singular opinion.
Far from it today, as the example of the research topic showed, and how often students edited it online.
If teaching/worship/discipleship/etc remains spectator rather than participatory, what are the effects?
Cheers.
I agree Nathan…
In this great book, “From Jesus to Christianity,” the author states that, “the burden of communication once rested on the original storytellers;” that is the gospel writers. But the expanse of time and semantical, cultural, and ideological changes that occur now place the burden of communication on the readers of today.
He was talking more about correct interpretation, but it can be applied, I think, to this contextualization issue. The fact that the message is so wrapped up in the medium necessitates flexibility to deal with the our burden.
“If teaching/worship/discipleship/etc remains spectator rather than participatory, what are the effects?”
I believe that the major effect would be misunderstanding of the message wrapped up in teaching/worship/discipleship, which would be sad.
Ya, definitely. This is the problem with modernism in general. It’s not relational. So it can be pretty difficult to reconcile following a relational God in a system that is antithetical to relationship.
And ya, our church services (at least the sermon part) are patterned after the same Greek orator model that our universities are. In fact, many churches don’t look that different from lecture halls. All seats face the platform, where the “expert” (whether considered an expert due to formal education, or special anointing or whatever) unloads his expertise on a passive audience. It’s all Greek to me ( a cultural joke there). :)
I think that Sarah hit the problem.. it is an absence of a relational model and an acceptance of a educational model.
Institutional church is modeled after institutional school.. college professors seem to have little to learn from their adult students.. as the video pointed out, their classes are too large to even know the names of those they teach.
Religious teachers seem to ape this behavior when they teach their disciples. In this model discipleship is not relational.. it is about teaching and not interacting.. it is about teaching but not about being taught.
Interesting that many small groups model this behavior as well. They have one central leader/teacher who models the behavior of institutional church leaders.. some house churches follow a liturgy that is similar to a traditional service.
BethFascinating discussion. What is your idea of a better model for education/church? (I’m lumping them together here and limiting this to the lecuture method currently used). What would a religious or educational gathering look like if you could overhaul it?
Nathan GannSarah nailed it.
Beth,
That is the hard question, and probably where I was initially going with the practical aspect of the video. Jesus didn’t do it based on that modern setting. He did speak to large groups, but it wasn’t really what I would consider discipling, per se. Keeping the teaching on a large scale and combining it with what? Jesus had meals? Small groups? Accountability?
But putting it in context with the PM video?
Good stuff.
Cheers.
That is a great question that Beth asked. I don’t feel confidently solid in my answers yet, but here’s some thoughts:
What if spiritual education is more ‘caught’ than ‘taught’? For instance, the spiritual mentors that impacted me most were those who modelled godly behavior by living their lives in front of me. I have gained far more wisdom and guidance from watching people live than from explicit lectures/sermons.
What role does story-telling play? I look at Jesus example, and how he used culturally appropriate parables. And I look at indigenous cultures and how they use story-telling as a means of teaching. What if the arts (especially story-telling arts like literature, theatre and film) became a major vehicle of communicating truth?
Just a couple of ideas, I’m sure others could add to the list…
Excellent question, awesome video. Thanks for both. Still thinking as to what my answer may be.